EP#151: International Men’s Day: Be a Role Model
In this special International Men’s Day episode, Work with Purpose host David Pembroke, Founder and CEO of contentgroup, brings together two senior public sector leaders to explore what male role modelling looks like in practice − not in theory.
Deputy Secretary David Mackay (Regions, Cities and Territories, Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications, Sport and the Arts) and Michael Pohl (National Manager for Smart Centres across Regional NSW and the ACT at Services Australia) share candid reflections on leadership, identity, caregiving, cultural background, and the real pressures of balancing demanding roles with busy family lives.
They discuss how men can foster psychological safety, model empathy, challenge outdated norms, support gender equity, and create environments where people feel seen, heard and valued. From early-career turning points to shifts in public policy, taking parental leave, and learning to lead with curiosity, humility and care, this episode offers a grounded look at what inclusive leadership really requires.
Listeners will hear lived experience, practical behaviours, First Nations perspectives, and personal stories that illuminate the difference male leaders can make in shaping respectful, healthy public sector workplaces.
Key Tips
- People remember how leaders make them feel
Small moments of validation or dismissal shape workplace culture more powerfully than formal feedback. - Lead with questions, not answers
Curiosity and humility help unlock team insight, build trust, and create stronger decisions. - Normalise shared caregiving
Taking parental leave and protecting family time strengthens leaders and helps shift outdated gender norms. - Be honest about the chaos
Vulnerability creates psychological safety and helps teams feel understood and supported.
GUESTS
David McKay
David Mackay is the Deputy Secretary for Sport, Territories and Regions in the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications, Sport and the Arts, and is also the Department’s Integrity and Risk champion.
David has held senior executive leadership roles across the Australian public sector, in the Attorney-General’s Department, the Department of Finance, and the Department of Health, and in the New Zealand Treasury. David is a director of the Foundation for Rural and Regional Renewal, a member of the Council of the Institute of Public Administration Australia (ACT), and a member of the APS Academy Faculty.
Michael Pohl
Michael Pohl is a Senior Executive at Services Australia and leads around 1,300 staff across the South Coast and ACT. With over 23 years in the Australian Public Service, Michael has built his career from the ground up since he was 17.
As a proud Wiradjuri man with Australian, Aboriginal, and German heritage, Michael has been a strong advocate for Indigenous employment and inclusion across the APS. His work has played a key role in modernising recruitment pathways and boosting participation and retention for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples across government.
Outside of work, Michael is a proud dad to three young daughters (including energetic twins and a newborn!). With his wife, daughters and their family dog at home, Michael is determined to show that strong, high-performing leaders can also be present fathers and partners
SHOW NOTES
- Coro Canberra (David Mackay’s choir): https://corocanberra.com
- Hartley Cycle Challenge (Michael’s charity ride): https://hartley.org.au